Jean Sebastien Williams is a local Montreal jazz guitar player who shares with us his thoughts on the importance of practicing, on gigging, and on the art of playing in a jazz trio. He;s also distinguished as being the first JGL interview. Great reading.

JazzGuitarLife.com Interview with Jean Sebastien Williams: This interview was conducted at my home in Montreal, Quebec, Canada on April 5, 2004.

JGL: How old are you?

JS: 28.

JGL: How long have you been playing guitar?

JS: I started playing guitar when I was about 15...I started playing a little later...I started playing seriously when I was about 17. I had a guitar in school and there was another guy in school, this was high school, and he played great electric blues like Jimi hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn, he had all that down, and he's still a great player today. I learned a lot from him, and when he showed me like the blues and stuff I was like "Ok" so we kind of formed a band together with a bunch of other guys in high school...and started doing that and had a couple of first gigs when I was about 18...

JGL: In that style?

JS: Yeah...in that style... rock...heavy rock...he wrote a lot of songs...blues based...but it was kinda like Slash...he was really into that and after doing that for a couple of years...approximately a year and a half I started getting tired of it. I was like...I wanted to learn more you know...And I was working with the city at the time (West Island). I was living in the West Island and these guys I met were in the West Island...so we did that and we played a few gigs you know...I think I played my first gig when I was 18...and while we were doing it, I was kind of getting tired of it and all that and I was listening to other things and I met this guy Chuck (DaCoulis). Chuck is like now playing with Corneille and he's well on his way. We met each other through the city of Dollard, we both had a job there as students and I think the first year we were together I was his boss, we were working in a park, and he used to bring his stereo to the park with his tapes, he had tons of tapes and he'd say "have you heard this" and I'd say "no" , and then "have you heard this"...he had his thing together a little longer than I had...he was a little bit older than me...he'd been doing his thing around 14...although I'm not entirely sure of that...

JGL: What kind of tapes was he playing?

JS: Ahhh man....everything...you know...the Allman Brothers, Carlos Santana, and you know...oh..the guy who use to play with Rod Stewart...what's his name...

JGL: Jeff Beck?

JS: Yeah!...exactly, Jeff Beck...he brought out this Jeff Beck tape and it was like I had never heard guitar like that before you know..lol...and it was like "wow man, you can play like that?" And he's like, "well, I'm learning you know". He said "why don't you come out to one of my gigs?" He was playing at Clyde's in the West Island, and I went to see him and it was a blues band and it blew me away! They were playing like...Stevie Wonder...they played a lot of Allman Brothers...and I was like that's how I wanna sound you know. So I started taking lessons with him (Chuck) and in the lessons all he was showing me was Jazz. It was all Jazz. And actually, I had this thing before when I was playing with the rock guys one of the guys, the guitar player, wanted to go to Vanier (Montreal CEGEP), he wanted to study at Vanier. And so to get into Vanier you neded to study a little bit of jazz guitar so he was going to McGill (University) and studying with someone at McGill. And then he would come back to my place and on Fridays we would get together and play and I'd say "what did you learn today"? and he was like "...they showed me this stuff", and I was like "What! That's beautiful! you know what is that?" He's like "I don't know, it's a scale..." And I remember it was a C Dorian scale and "WOW". So I was shedding that you know and I was like "I want to know how to play Jazz" and it kind of clicked then but I kind of left it aside. And when I met Chuck and I was studying with him he was showing me all jazz technique and scales, arpeggios and all that, and for me it was like "ok...this is the stuff that I've been hearing that I want to play". So that's when I decided "all right I want to learn to play jazz". And then he said "all right, check out these guys, check out those guys..." So I did.

JGL: So he was already well versed in the jazz guitar thing...?

JS: Yeah...he was already playing jazz. He knew a bunch of standards and he was way past my time that's for sure. So I learned basically everything from him. He kind of took me under his wing and said "you know, you should study and you should go do your audition at Concordia (University) and maybe at CEGEP St. Laurent"...so I did all that you know. When I finally got into school it was like "all right, ok, here I am.." It was more like this is my time to go through 4 years of practicing my ass off because...

JGL: Sorry...this was at Concordia?

JS: Yeah at Concordia...I did a degree in Mechanical Engineering at CEGEP St. Laurent and I worked in that for like a year...I was working in some plant in Blainville and I was practicing guitar at the time.

JGL: How old were you when you went to Concordia?

JS: I was older...I was probably 22...yeah...about 22.

JGL: So you decided, this is my 4 years, I'm gonna plow right through...

JS: Yeah...that's it...I mean for him, what Chuck taught me was that practice is key. You don't practice, nothings gonna happen! And I guess I didn't really understand that, especially coming out of this rock thing where the guys never practiced you know...it's like "practice? What practice? Just do it." And so for me it was this new mentality that I kind of really...I liked it. I liked the fact that...you know, I quickly realized that if I practiced, I would actually get results. And I was amazed by that you know? "Wow, if you practice you get better! That's interesting..."

JGL: If you work at something...

JS: Yeah...you actually get better! And so he really like instilled this mind set in me that you have to practice everyday. And you know, you obviously wanna practice more than less...you know, everyday you gotta be doing this reading, or these scales, or learning songs...

JGL: Did you have a specific time when you would practice, or a specific routine...?

JS: In the beginning I did because I was working with my dad at the time so everyday after work I would get home and practice for maybe an hour, or an hour and a half or maybe more if I wasn't doing anything that night I would maybe practice 3 or 4 hours...on a good day. And on other days I would practice half an hour if I felt like it....

JGL: This was while going to school?

JS: No..this was before school...I was kinda getting ready to do the audition and all that...

JGL: Under Chucks tutelage...

JS: Yes, exactly...and he knew what I needed to do...and actually he was auditioning for McGill at the same time, so we started our degrees at the same time. But he'd been playing a lot longer and he knew his stuff. He had studied with other people...he studied with Mike Rud. He's a great player...basically I can say that for me, he's the guy...he made a choice...he's like..."jazz guitar is what I love but there's only so many guys who can just play jazz and make a living." He used to tell me about his practice routine where he would take a week and divide the week up into different styles: "Monday I'm gonna practice Country...I'll practice chicken pickin', I'm gonna listen to Clint Strong". And that's what he would o, he'd practice Country all day long. Then the next day he'd practice Blues or that kind of stuff...funk...you know...so he'd do that for the whole week, and I remember thinking "WOW...that's kinda cool". For me at that time it was like "no, no, I just practice jazz. It's all jazz, you know, if you have jazz you have everything". Now I realize that it's not the case. Chuck had this thing where he wanted all the angles covered. Guitar is not just jazz guitar, it's all kinds of things. We lsiten to Hendrix and were like "Wow, that's awsome!" So for him that was his thing and then he started moving to playing more pop and now he's playing pop. And he's got a great career ahead of him now, you know, he's now playing with this guy Corneille whose huge in France and so he sort of opened that door for me ...and we talk on the phone and I'm playing other stuff as well now and he's like "So how's that going...you still playing jazz?" He was always asking me "So you just going to play jazz?" And I'm not sure...I don't know...Jazz is what I love to do it's what I want to play, it's what I want to practice, but, also it's so hard...just getting one gig a week is tough...but people do it.

JGL: Lets jump back a bit. What were your parents reaction to your musical pursuits? Were they supportive of your wanting to be a musician?

JS: At first they were like "It's a good hobby for this kid", they didn't really think much of it. Today my mom sees it as "ok..it's his career", but my dad saw it a little quicker than my mom. They are divorced now but at the time when I started taking private lessons and I was deciding to go into school my mom was like "Why? Why would you want to do that?" For her it was like "ok...it's a phase" But my dad was like "if you wanna go to school this is waht you have to do..." He's a very motivated man...he's like "write your goals down, follow through, change your plan..." So he helped me through that and I got in and my dad was like "Ok, what are your goals" and I was telling him that it's not that simple to say "these are my goals" and then just to go...a lot of it is kind of luck. Basically who you meet and what kind of person you are...there's a lot of really great musicians that we've never heard of and that we'll probably never hear of. And there are some not as good musicians that are everywhere...so...how did they get to where they are? Well, some of them are more business savy than others. So thats another aspect of it, how you go and talk to bar owners and how you go and approach somebody with a business proposition is basically what it is.

JGL: Do you do that on your own? Do you do the cold sell...

JS: Sometimes, I don't do it much anymore, thank God because I really don't like it. I guess you know, when I really need work I'll go and see some places and say "you guys want a band and blah blah blah..." Last time we did that was maybe a year ago and what did we get out of it? We got...one gig in a restaurant which was really lame...can't really play...and all that. A lot of people are really good at that, they go in there and they got a really great business pitch and they say "were gonna give you this and this is how it's gonna be and it'll be great!" A lot of guys are successful...I'm not so successful at it. So now I just kind of...I don't wait for the phone to ring becuase it won't, but I'm not gonna do that part of it. I'm kinda like gonna motivate some one else to do it...lol.

JGL: When you were young did your parents buy you a guitar? Or did you have to buy your own guitar?

JS: Well, I didn't but one right away...what happened was my dad rented us 2 guitars. So for the first month, maybe month and a half, my brother and I both started playing together...we both had rented guitars...I think I had a Vantage...my brother...I forget what he had but it was black...and that's what I ended up buying right after. So when we were taking lessons, I was really into it, my brother was really into it too, but my brother is kind of a lazier kind of guy...he had a lot more talent than I did because he played Trombone in high school, he knew how to read a little bit of music and he was better than I was. So I'd be like (mumble) "I gotta practice..." my older brother, so you know...lol...but then he broke his leg and he stopped going to the lessons and that was it for him. He just never picked it up anymore.

JGL: What does your brother think of your musical pursuits now that you are on your way and playing a lot? Does he regret not continuing?

JS: My brother is not that kind of guy to regret, I thik he's more like sort of proud maybe? Like, "way to go, you did it" and so for him it's more like "Good job" My family's like "Well, what are you gona do now?" lol..."Big deal...what are you gonna do now...?" lol

JGL: Kind of like you're always just as good as your last gig...

JS: Exactly...

JGL: What did you work on when you did your Concordia Adutiion? Do you remember what pieces you did?

JS: Yeah...I did "All The Things You Are" and "Blue Monk"...

JGL: As a chord/melody?

JS: No...I had a friend...a bass player who came in with me and he walked...

JGL: You just blew over the changes?

JS: Yeah...

JGL: Any classical pieces?

JS: No, I did just 2 jazz pieces and I read through a piece that I couldn't read...it was pathetic...lol.

JGL: What are your reading skills like now?

JS: Ahhhh...not as good as they should be.

JGL: Do you think this has hindered you in any way...

JS: Well that's the thing...that's why it's not so good. Becuase I don't find that in my day to day that's what I'm faced with...I can read chords no problem, but stick a bebop melody in front of me and there's no way I'm gonna read it...some songs that are kinda tricky I have to work them out...I mean it's not gonna take me a half hour but I gotta work them out. But how many times am I faced with that in real life? Not very many. Even for studio things most of the time I know the song already. Basically on any gig that I do I don't wanna read. I'd rather have the stuff memorized. So that's the work I'll put into it when I go home. I'll memorize it and learn it that way. I feel trapped when I'm reading...

JGL: I can imagine. In some sense, reading skills are an important tool to have at your disposal, but I think they can also limit you to just what's on the page and it's that rare musician who can interpret the notes musically and come out playing the piece with a personality that is his or her own rather than just reading what's there and then leaving it at that.

JS: Yeah...if I'm reading a standard, obviously I am not going to read it directly off the page I mean I throw it in and...a lot of it is like the last four songs you've just played anyway...but when you get into the modal songs, and the songs that have to be played dead on, that's when my reading skills are no good.

JGL: What was your sense of attending music school? Was the learning something that you think you could have done on your own?

JS: Definitley not something I could have done on my own. Concordia was great, it was really good. I mean, a lot of people complain about it...all I hear abou Concordia is complaints about this and that but I always thought it was fine. I didn't go to McGill and I know people who went to McGill and they complain as well...I mean people will complain about everything..but honestly, I think it was for me, going in there in my mind it was like "all right, now I got 4 years to practice..." and I'm not going to wait for the teacher to tell me to do something before I am going to go ahead and do it...When you get out in the real world, nobody's gonna be like, "oh...it's fine...your doing fine". Nobody's gonna say that to you. And I have always just had that attitude I guess naturally where you know, if you're not gonna do it, it's not going to help you. So they're not here to make you become a professional musician. They're just here to help you. So if you don't wanna do it, it's not going to happen...

JGL: Yeah...they'll guide you...show you the path...but you have to walk it the rest of the way...

JS: Yeah...I mean, I learned a lot at Concordia and practiced a lot when I was there. That's where I did most of my practicing. And I'm still practicing some of the stuff I was practicing back then. Every day it was just like plow through a bunch of ideas, and now I'm starting to get a grip on all of them. When I was at Concordia I had a gig with this guy three nights a week. It wasn't the hottest band you ever heard, but to me it was like you were playing with a Jamey Aebersold. You're playing live and getting that live feedback and every day I would work on an idea and say "ok, tonight I'm just gonna do diminished scales on all five chords". So then I would do that. I was like..."ok, that sounded kind of lame so tonight I'm gonna be playing a lot of fourths. So all the solos are based on fourths." So then that's what I would do you know...and then you would find the limitiations to those simple little ideas...just one idea, how far can you really push it? And that kind of way of working ideas helps.

JGL: I'm sure. Just like your father stresses, you set a goal with the execution of that goal being the performance that night and then you find out if it's happening or not happening. I think that's a great way of testing your limits and maybe I should do that...lol. I took a class once with a great sax player named Remi Boulduc and he told us that a great way to work things out is to just take one concept at a time and work it to death. So if you wanted to expand your knowledge on how the jazz melodic minor works over dominat chords, then just work on that concept until it was embedded in your musical psyche...then work on another concept and follow the same route. I find that today, with all the resources for learing and all the players working different styles and what not, that you spend a little time on a few things and end up not being very strong in one area or concept.

JS: Exactly...you blast your brain with a thousand ideas and you get on the gig and you end up playing the same shit you did the night before...lol. It's hard to do though. Really, I should get back into doing that again. Although now it's less I'm practicing on the gig, I feel less like that..

JGL: So now you feel like your actually performing...

JS: I guess now what I'm trying to do is sometimes try to play like I'm being recorded. It makes it a little different....you take less choruses, make it more like this is the beginning, this is the end, this is the middle. It doesn't always work though...lol.

JGL: Lets talk a little about influences. When you were coming up you mentioned that you were into the rock thing, and then afetr meeting Chuck, you got into other forms of music. Who were your influences in jazz guitar?

JS: Ahhhh....good question...

JGL: Well either then or now...or have they remained the same or changed as you have grown musically?

JS: They sort of changed because I guess....well...my first influences were like the older guys like Wes Montgomery obviously, all those guys....then I heard George Benson and I was like "Oh My God!"

JGL: Early Benson?

JS: Yeah early Benson...even the stuff today...I mean some people are going go "oh man.." and some of the stuff is cheesy...but his playing is wicked. I mean his playing...forget about it...it's beautiful. Every time you hear him...forget it man...George is...well I got to meet him...

JGL: You did?

JS: Yeah...really nice guy...so then later on I guess I started listening to Pat Martino. Each guy I find has their thing to look for. Wes Montgomery has a great time feel, he's got a wicked feel and he's got those octave things happening so thats really cool. George Benson is to me like, he's got a wicked tone, and I would love to sound like George Benson on uptempo songs. He sounds great and his time feel is wicked, and he plays bluesy and I love that. Pat Martino has got thousands of millions of lines...he could play eighth notes or sixteenth notes without stopping forever..lol. A new thing everytime. So I like Pat Martino for that. The main guy that I am into now is Kurt Rosenwinkel. I think that he really, for todays modern jazz guitar, I think he's got it together. Because what I like in jazz guitar is the Trio, and he's got it down. He's one of the first guys I have heard in a long time who has that concept together. He's got the sound for it, the ideas are always changing, lots of chords...you know, it's not like when I listen to Metheny (Pat) playing in a trio it's like eighth notes or sixteenth notes (mimics left hand running up and down the fretboard). Sounds great man, sounds wicked, awsome, and then he'll throw in chords at the end you know....but you really see that there's a line drawn in between. And I think Kurt approaches it a little bit more like a piano player would. His phrasing is like...I don't know...I just think he's got the concept down. And that's one of the guys that for the past 6 or 7 months is the guy that I listen to the most.

JGL: Any reccomendations for albums? I have "Heartcore" I don't know if you know that album...

JS: YEAH! I was just gonna say...and he's doing the other thing too which is not just your typical jazz trio thing but he's also doing stuff with Q-Tip which I like too because I'm into that stuff too you know where it's like he's taking electronic music and using the electronic music concept with jazz written all over it And you listen to that album and some of the harmonic changes in there are like "whoa!" You don't really notice it you know it just kinda flows through. I love that album, I think it's great.

JGL: Any other...

JS: "East Coast Love Affair" with the trio, it sounds amazing. That's my number one.

JGL: When I saw you a couple of weeks ago (March, 2004) you played some standards in a very cool way. I don't know if this is a fair assessment of your playing but I heard elements of Pat Metheny and Mike Stern. I think Metheny more for the sound that you had and Stern for the lines you were playing. You were playing lines that weren't your typical straight ahead or bop lines which I thought was very cool. Then you played some originals and I thought that was also really cool because very rarely do I go out and see a jazz guitar who would play originals. It's mostly the usual fare of standards and traditional jam tunes and I was wondering if this was a definite need to want to play originals because you felt it would be cool to play or was it more heartfelt in that you HAD to get these tunes out into the public consciousness? Or is it that you want to be known as a jazz guitar player AND a composer? Also I know that you applied and received a music grant to compose and record some tunes so did that have an effect in your playing your original tunes?

JS: Well, I guess I never really looked at it like that. I don't know...the first grant that I got was a composing grant. I had written some songs in school and outside of school and even last night I ended up writting a song. It wasn't a jazz song but I was writing a song. I find that I get into like this head space where I guess I kind of feel trapped for a while. I feel like nothing is really going right. I mean everybody gets this feeling and I feel like "oh...my last weeks gigs weren't great you know, and I played this gig and this happened and I did that on that song and then I played this"...I was feeling like things weren't going right and I would write a song. I was sitting at home last night and I was like "allright...how do I turn this feeling into something good. And so I was writing songs like that, and then I would write jazz songs, like if I was feeling excited or something I would be like "yeah I wanna write I'm hearing this song I'm hearing it fast then I'm hearing this idea and then I go to the guitar and boom, I put it down and now when I play them I get that feeling of how I was feeling when I wrote the song. It's not that I want to be known as a composer, nothing like that, I write them because I want to write them for me. I find that I'm expressing something through that...I think...I try. So my first grant was a composing grant and now I have this other grant and I want to play these songs because I want them to be part of the vocabulary, I want them to be part of the songs that I play. You know, I've got a bunch of standards that I can play inside out and their different every time and I can approach them this way or that way and I feel that I know them really well. I can do whatever I want...sometimes...you know the feeling...but I want my songs, the ones that I wrote, to feel like that too. And I still don't 100 percent feel like that, but they're getting there.

JGL: Tell me a little bit about the grants. Were you still in Concordia when you applied for the first grant?

JS: No, I just finished and now it's like, here you are in the real world, just finished, and you're supposed to be professional and now go ahead and do your professional thing. So my ex brother-in-law, he's a really business savy guy, mentioned that I should try out for some grants. So I looked into it and I got it. I got it on my first shot.

JGL: What agency did you go through. How did you...

JS: It was the Conseil d'arts de lettre du Quebec and it was for a composition grant.

JGL: So the first time right off the bat you got it....

JS: Well I applied for a Canada Council grant but didn't get that. First letter came in the mail, because I applied for both at the same time, saying that I was "A loser. Forget about it"...lol...I was pretty down on that one. Then the second one came in and said you know, here's some money. I was shocked. Very pleased...

JGL: And the second Grant was that also from the same agencies?

JS: Well in between we got another grant with another band I am in....we got a video grant for $15,000.00 through FACTOR which was nice...that band is like an acid jazz band, rapper and stuff, and it's a funny video. The guy who made it has a funny sense of humour so...it's a funny video. And then the last grant is for the current project...

JGL: With Mark and Mishka (drums and bass respectively. JS's current trio)?

JS: Yeah...

JGL: Cool. Well I think that about covers it for now Jean Sebastion...thank you for participating on jazzguitarlife.com and all the best towards your future success.

JS: Thank you. It was my pleasure.