Mark Kleinhaut is truly an inspirational working jazz guitar player from Portland, Maine. He shares his thoughts on everything from his musical background, to his simultaneous banking career, his associations with Bobby Watson and Tiger Okoshi and the sometimes sober realization of what one can expect when attempting to bring the art of jazz to a world that for the most part wants nothing to do with jazz. A definite must read for anyone involved or wanting to get involved in jazz guitar specifically and jazz in general.

JazzGuitarLife.com Interview with Mark Kleinhaut: This interview was conducted via email May, 2004. Check out his website at www.markkleinhaut.com/

JGL: How old are you?

MK: I’m 47….man, time flies!

JGL: What geographical area do you live in?

MK: I live just north of Portland, Maine. It’s 2 hours to Boston and 5 and a half to NYC from here.

JGL: At what age did you first get into guitar playing and were you interested in jazz from the beginning or were there other musical interests before jazz? What was the motivating experience to get you involved in this particular music and
instrument?

MK: I started playing guitar at age 13. I was playing trumpet before that starting in 4th grade, but I wasn’t really any good at it and the guitar seemed much more natural, easy to play compared to the trumpet- I was strumming folkie chords and singing simple tunes of the day within six months of picking it up, so it offered some pretty instant gratification. By high school I wanted to be in rock bands and I took up electric bass. We got into some complicated stuff from bands like Yes, ELP and Genesis that helped to prepare my ears for the jazz that was to come, but at that age if you said “jazz” I would have just thought, “elevator music”.

JGL: What kind, if any, formal training do you have (ie: lessons, schooling, that sort of thing). And how did these experiences help you get where you are today?

MK: I studied jazz guitar and received a music degree from Rutgers University in 1979. I studied there with the late great Ted Dunbar who had so much knowledge and wisdom about jazz and guitar, I’m still digesting what he taught me 25 years later. Ted’s influence is always there, though it may be hard to break it down into a list of things, but the aesthetic of Ted’s influence may be summed up by saying that he inspired me to want to be an artist, not a musician, someone who would create beauty in the world. I was initially self-taught with some help from other guitar playing friends to get some basics going. In a way, this beginning, and I’m sure lots of guitarists can relate, got me going on the play-by-ear approach that is still one of the most important skills you need for playing jazz. The down-side is that my sight-reading chops were never great and they still aren’t. I mean, I can read, but not like a horn player or like the book-wise classical guys. To me, the lines don’t really make sense until I can hear them in my head- then it’s the phrasing that is the most important thing- and that (phrasing) is always an ear thing.

JGL: What was your first guitar? What are you playing now?

MK: My first guitar was my older sister’s guitar. Something very cheap. I remember taking a Radio Shack microphone and screwing it into the top and plugging it into her stereo- my first “electric” guitar? After that, she didn’t want it anymore- I wrecked a lot of her stuff that way- and I hacked around with that for about a year before I got a “real” guitar. The guitar I play almost exclusively now is a PRS Hollowbody, but I’ll talk more about that later.

JGL: Who were your influences on jazz guitar when you were beginning? And have they stayed the same or have they changed over the years? Who are you listening to today (guitarists or non-guitarists)?

MK: The very first jazz guitarists that reached me were the big fusion guys of the 70’s, John McLaughlin and Al Dimeola. I also really dug Jaco at that time, and all of that led me to Miles. Miles was the gateway to listening to everybody else in jazz up through that time, especially Bird and Trane. At that point, the guitarists that made the deepest impression were Wes, Pat Martino and Benson, though I quickly started getting back into Joe Pass and so many other great players that came before. I was not until much later that I heard Lenny Breau and it seems like there are many great guitar players these days- I like listening to all of them, there is so much great stuff out there.

JGL: When you were younger what was your band experiences like? Did you have friends who were involved in music as well or did you have to search for people to play with.

MK: It seems like there has always been a musician crowd to fall in with, right from the beginning. Most of my friends are musicians- mostly jazz musicians, and playing music is still the thing I do most for fun. I think it will always be that way.

JGL: What was your practice routine like when you were beginning and what is it like now? Are there specific areas that you work on or do you just play through tunes?

MK: I always thought I was lazy and unfocussed, yet my wife of 25 years says I’m the most driven and disciplined person she knows (when it comes to music). So, I guess it’s a matter of perspective. I always liked to doodle and noodle and that’s been a constant part of my “practicing”- because it is fun and that’s an important reason, maybe the most important reason, why I play---- for fun! Some disciplinarians say “Don’t Noodle!!”, but say do what you enjoy. But it’s also been fun to master the technical requirements of playing jazz and at the top of that list is learning tunes- many, many tunes. Every tune teaches you something different even as you can take everything you know from before and apply it to that new tune. It is a cumulative process- but each time you learn what you need to know in order to deliver the tune, to bring it to life. It’s not something that happens overnight. In the beginning, that means you have to learn lots of scales and chord shapes and figure out how to piece things together. Now it means taking the vocabulary, all those pieces, and combining them in new ways that keep things interesting. Kind of an endless puzzle because there is really no limit to how many ways you can wind your way though a set of standard changes.

JGL: How do you go about searching for gigs or do they come to you now that you are known? And what have you found in your experience that makes looking for gigs easier?

MK: Getting gigs is not getting any easier for me. I guess the deal is that the more my musical resume grows the less interested I become in working those gigs that now should in theory be easier to get. Starting out, any gig was a good gig and I cut my teeth playing in small combos in little restaurants or hotels where we were providing background music, you know, low pressure- nobody really listening. These days, I just don’t want to bother with those situations. There are plenty of younger guys coming up who need those gigs more than I do. They need the bandstand experience and the $50 paycheck, so let them play those gigs. I just don’t want to play anymore if people aren’t listening. I’ll still do these gigs on occasion, to help out if someone needs a guitarist to fill in, and I’ve had some great fun doing some jazz weddings, but what I really want to be doing is concerts where I can perform my original compositions and bring in higher profile guest artists.

JGL: Could you describe some of your best musical situations or experiences and the worst?

MK: The best situations have been having guys like Bobby Watson and Tiger Okoshi come to town to work with me and my group. Particularly with those two guys- I’ve made CD’s, so the relationship is now very deep. We book concert tours in the area and they come up for several days of playing and by the end of the run things are really happening at a high level. My primary goal is to do more of this as often as I can swing it.

JGL: What type of musical situation do you enjoy the most (ie: trio, quartet, duo, solo, etc.)

MK: I like all of these situations. They all present different challenges and opportunities for expression.

JGL: You have played and recorded with some prominent, well-established, and respected jazz players like Bobby Watson and Tiger Okoshi. How did these unions come about and do you plan on including them or any other high profile jazz
players in future projects? And have you played with any other high profile names that I don't know about?

MK: As I said, I hope to continue performing with these guys as much as possible, but for recording projects I feel that I want to continue to widen the circle of friends. My next project, now in the planning stage, is going to be a duo recording with Brad Terry who plays clarinet and whistles. If you recall the amazing Lenny Breau recording “The Living Room Tapes”, Brad is the other half of that incredible duo. So Brad and I have been doing lots of duo playing (all on standards so far) and the conversational aspects of this format present wonderful and unique areas for musical exploration. I’m working on new compositions for this collaboration and hope to record it later this summer and release it in the fall. With my trio, I have plans to invite the great tenor player Jerry Bergonzi back to Maine for some gigs (I played with him once a few years ago) and we’ll see what develops with that. I also enjoy exploring some non-jazz things. I’ve done some jam sessions with a turntableist who lives up, and it sounds like a Hip Hop Bitches Brew sort of thing. We’ve yet to gig it, but I think it would be well received and we might record at some point as well.

JGL: You play mostly in a trio setting or in the case of Bobby and Tiger, a trio setting with horns. How do you find being the only harmonic instrument in the band? Is it limiting? Or does it allow you a certain freedom to do what you want?

MK: There is nothing limiting in it at all. Actually, I really prefer to be the only chordal instrument in an ensemble. Freedom is part of it, though with a really good pianist or guitarist, with really good ears, it makes no difference- it’s just as free as without, but I do like the openness of the sound with just myself on guitar. The most important thing is to work with players who really really listen. The instrumentation is secondary to that, but it is always nice to “voice” the ensemble with a variety so that the group has the widest range of textures available.

JGL: I have read on your site that not only are you an extremely gifted jazz guitar player, but you are also a "well-established professional in financial circles". Why did you decide to do both careers somewhat simultaneously and how
have you been able to maintain a standard of excellence in both fields, not to mention your sanity?

MK: My banking career happened by accident. I got a day job to help pay the bills just like lots of guys have done, but for some reason I was very good at it and moving up the corporate ladder came naturally. I can’t explain it other than to observe that it has been a gradual process that unfolded over the last 24 years. Having dual careers was never really a decision, it just evolved that way.

JGL: Your time management skills must be honed to the nth degree. Have their been any specific techniques that you have developed to ensure an equal distribution of time and practice amongst the various priorities or professions you have going on? Not to mention having to spend some time with your family and friends?

MK: The only technique I can really speak of relates to perseverance, and by this, I mean that come hell or high water I’m going to play the guitar every day, even if it’s only for 10 minutes. It is imperative to play every day- just like eating or sleeping. My wife understands this, accepts this, and I suppose even loves this about me. Pursuing music involves sacrifices, whether it’s your only career or if you do it like I do, so it is incredibly important to have a spouse who knows this up front and accepts it.

JGL: Much like Barry Harris (New York based bop piano player and educator) you have been a huge proponent of jazz education for the young, giving lessons, clinics, workshops, and lectures to a young audience. Would you talk a bit about how you go about bringing the voice of jazz to a generation that has been inundated by commercial and popular music trappings? And have you found them to be receptive or uninterested?

MK: Well, there is an old saying that 90% of success is just showing up?. Honestly, though, the other 10% is a constant struggle. I don’t know any magic formula of how to make jazz relevant, let alone interesting, to young people. I wish I did. Every time I work with kids I find that some will gravitate to the music while others won’t. By the time they get into high school it can be difficult to break through, but the really young ones, pre-teens, are great because they don’t know yet what is supposed to be cool or not. They are pure and open minded- very responsive. I tell them this: “The best part of being a musician is that we don’t have to “really” ever grow up”.

JGL: You have four recordings out as a leader with tunes that appear to be all original compositions. Why have you recorded only original compositions rather than the usual standards and Would you describe the process of coming up with original tunes? Also, in a radio interview, you mention writing the tunes for "A Balance of Light" specifically for Bobby Watson's playing and personality. What, if any, was the struggle in coming up with those tunes and what was Bobby's response to them?

MK: This comes down to one’s reasons for making a CD in the first place. To me, it is all about personal expression, motivated by an inner drive to make an artistic statement. I think that working with original compositions ups the ante because you have to have the vision of what things should sound like. The musicians on the recording date react differently because you’re right there, the “composer”. Naturally they ask you what you want. I write tunes that throw that question back to the musicians- they are open. Everyone has to create their own part, follow their own internal compass and “own” the music- I look for musicians who can work with that. I write tunes in lead sheet format, and we play them like it was any other page in the “Real Book”. Now, writing for players like Bobby and Tiger is actually easy once you get going because they have the technique to execute virtually anything you can throw at them- plus they have a certain intensity and experience where owning the music comes very quickly and naturally. I just try to write strong melodies and develop harmonic motion that is interesting for blowing. They are like little puzzles- big fun, really.

JGL: You have brought your Trio over to Europe and to Cuba to do a number of concerts. Did you find any differences with those audiences as compared to American/North American audiences? And were there any memorable experiences that you would like to comment on in regards to either of those visits?

MK: You know, I think people are the same all over when it comes to jazz. The audience in Europe was great (as I had always heard), but folks can be pretty damn good right here too, so I don’t see this as a big divide. Jazz seems universal and the reactions of people seem to be pretty consistent- like how folks respond to tasty food or good wine- sounds good - is good. Going to several cities in Cuba was a wonderful experience (I was there with duo partner Brad Terry) because music is so prevalent there…. Music is literally everywhere, and we were warmly received everywhere we went, treated very respectfully and made very comfortable. We made some great new friends there and we hope to go back once the political situation between Cuba and the US improves.

JGL: Do you like performing more as a sideman or as a leader? And if you could comment on the pros and cons of both.

MK: I mostly perform as a leader these days since I’m promoting CDs and the groups that play my compositions. This is probably the most rewarding situation for me and there is no downside to it except the financial burden of carrying a band. Sideman gigs are nice for variety and to meet new players, so I’m always open to getting calls for different things. Sometimes it’s really enjoyable to just coast along there on the back line.

JGL: Would you talk a bit about your guitar sound? What type of gear are you using?

MK: My main guitar these days is a PRS Hollowbody. It’s got a two piece maple top and mahogany back and sides that are routed from a single piece of wood. When they route out this block of mahogany, the leave a post in the middle that comes up under the bridge- so it’s more resonant than a 335 style guitar with the block, but never feeds back. If you haven’t guessed, I love this guitar. For amplification, I use the Clarus 1R made by Acoustic Image and a variety of Raezer’s Edge speaker cabinets, which in my opinion are the best sounding gear on the market- at any price. Gear aside, the most important aspect of getting a sound is how you touch the instrument. This is where one’s sound becomes personal because everyone does this slightly differently. The trick is to really listen to yourself and hear the nuance of how even the most subtle changes in touch will effect the sound and the point where it all comes together is when you make these changes that support the lines you’re playing in meaningful ways. When you hear a great horn player it sounds like he’s sculpting every single note. We can do that on guitar too-it’s part of playing phrases rather than licks.

JGL: Where would you like to see jazz guitar go in the coming years?

MK: I’d like to see jazz enjoyed by more people and I’d like to see jazz musicians receive the respect and financial rewards that their efforts deserve. I don’t care so much about jazz guitar, per se, but jazz overall needs some serious help. Most people just don’t get it. It is a crying shame. It is such a rich art-form, but most people don’t know how to listen. Pop music may be utter drivel, but everyone relates because they can tune into the lyrics or incorporate the social aspects into their daily activities. Music is their life’s soundtrack- but it’s never really at the center of attention no matter how ubiquitous it seems to me. People don’t know how listen.

JGL: Any advice for the younger guy or gal who is thinking about playing jazz guitar?

MK: Get a day job!! I’m dead serious. It has worked exceptionally well for me and I would suggest that the best thing you can do is to set yourself up in life so that you can play music without the financial burden of trying to make a living at it. I’m not happy to give this advice, and I’d do music full time if I could afford to- I just don’t dig being poor, you know? And listen to everything you can. Be open minded to all kinds of music and be a sponge- take it all in. Finally, be patient… it can take a long time to become accomplished. As my friend Bobby Watson says “It takes a lot of hard work just to suck”.