Michael Greenfield is a world class luthier who has made guitars for none other than Pat Martino, Charlie Hunter and Joe Finn. In this interview, Michael provides an insightful look at the world of the guitar luthier and what it means to create something you love. A very informative, and sometimes humorous read indeed.

JazzGuitarLife.com Interview with Master Luthier Michael Greenfield: This interview was conducted at his place of business July, 2004. Check out his website at www.greenfieldguitars.com

JGL: Hello Michael, and thank you for participating on www.jazzguitarlife.com.

MG: My pleasure.

JGL: You are a world class luthier who has built guitars for many individuals, including two of the most popular jazz guitar players in the business today: Pat Martino and Charlie Hunter. How did these relationships come about?

MG: I made a guitar for Pat Martino, but I have to say this: Pat Martino endorses Gibson guitars. He is not an official endorser of mine. He does own one of my guitars and he is a wonderful man who I am proud to call a friend. He is one of the guitar Gods and I am proud to have had the opportunity to build him a guitar. Charlie is an endorser of Novax guitars. Ralph Novak is a wonderful man and a colleague of mine.

JGL: How did the Charlie Hunter commission come about?

MG: I met Charlie here at the [Montreal] Jazz Festival a few years ago and we started talking about several things. He had mentioned that he wanted to head off in a different direction with acoustic guitars, away from his electric thing. Over a period of a few months one thing led to another, a commission developed and I built him that nutty eight string, nylon string guitar.

JGL: Does he play it…

MG: He’s working on it right now. He took delivery of it in February and he said he doesn’t want to do his “normal thing” on this guitar. So I guess he’s developing a new repertoire for it. He’s happy with it he said, but right now it’s Jazz Festival season so he’s busy all over the place. I imagine this Fall we’ll begin to hear bits and blurbs from that guitar.

JGL: So you approached Charlie Hunter at a previous Montreal Jazz Festival?

MG: Yeah, I met him after his show and I honestly hadn’t thought of making an instrument for him. I’m just a big fan like everyone else is. I mean the guy’s a monster! I asked him “do you only do this gig electric…have you ever thought about doing this gig acoustic?” And he said “As a matter of fact my wife and I have been talking about doing an acoustic guitar thing. But who is going to build a nutty guitar like this (pointing to his Novax) as an acoustic?” And I said “I WILL!” I gave him my card and asked if he was going to be around for a few days. I was going to invite him to the shop to talk about it and let him try some of the instruments, but as with all Jazz players during “Jazz festival season”, he was out the next morning on a 7 am flight. Two months later I was standing at my work bench with one of Charlie’s CD’s blaring over the stereo, the phone rings and he says “Hey it’s Charlie Hunter…” and I say “No Way! Listen to this…” and I hold up the phone towards the speakers…lol. We talked about the guitar, his ideas, playing style and what he wanted the instrument to do some more and the next time he was in town he came by the shop and played a few of my guitars. We talked about it even more and he left me one of his necks to copy…and that’s how that came about.

JGL: Cool…how did the Pat Martino thing come about?

MG: Pat Martino was kind of the same way. I met him at a venue he played, here in Montreal. , I approached him and wanted to invite him back to the shop as well, but he was also flying out the next morning. But he also knows Charlie Hunter very well; so I asked Charlie if he wouldn’t mind making the introduction a little more formal because it always helps. And it did! So that’s how that came about.

JGL: Did Pat come here or…

MG: No…I just sent it to him, but I told him if you don’t like the guitar send it back…

JGL: And he hasn’t sent it back?

MG: No….well actually, he did send it back because it needed a tweak. After making over 75 guitars, Pat Martino’s guitar had to be the one that needed a tweak…[chuckles] but he does have his Gibsons, so it wasn’t like he needed my guitar…

JGL: That must be the cool thing, because even though he can have pretty much any guitar he wants, or he can go to any luthier, he wanted one of yours.

MG: Like I said, I don’t know if he really wanted one of mine at first but he really likes it and has one of mine now and that is good enough for me. I have a picture of him playing the guitar on my web site.

JGL: Cool. Now, since we are talking about great players, let’s talk about Joe…

MG: Yeah…Joe Finn, what a tasty player. I met Joe in Saratoga Springs, New York. I was exhibiting at a guitar show there and he came over to my table and started playing. I thought to myself, “This guy doesn’t need to take any lessons [chuckles] he knows what he’s doing”, and he happens to be one of the nicest guys around. We talked about a couple of things, we didn’t really talk about me making him a guitar per se but he said he really liked my guitars and if I ever needed anybody to demo them, like at the Long island show or any of the other shows I exhibit at, it would be good for him and good for me. He’d be thrilled just to play the guitar, be on stage, meet some people and sell a few of his CD’s or whatever.

Actually, I have some sound clips on my site which are from a demo that I put together and sometimes gave to potential clients. I asked Joe to play on a couple of cuts. He put them down in 2 takes and it sounded great! Then he just kept on playing the guitar and was really digging it So I asked “Do you need one?” And he said “Yeah, I do”. So we made the necessary arrangements and I am just thrilled to bits that Joe is endorsing my guitars. ‘Cause he’s like the secret weapon, you know? Not nearly enough people know about him and he’s a talent who really needs to be discovered. Although I know he’s happy with his life the way it is. I am just really happy that he commissioned this guitar (points to a very sturdy flight case on the floor). And not just because it’s another commission; because thank goodness business for me is fine. But the reality is that 70% of my clientele are collectors and 30% are hardcore players or performing artists. I REALLY enjoy making guitars for the players. Although most players commission my most “basic”, guitars. Joe’s is not. I hate that term “basic guitar”, as I state on my site, and they are not just words: every guitar that leaves here is THE best guitar I can make. I am very particular about all the woods I use and when you buy a more expensive model it’s not a better guitar just a more expensive version. It would have wood bindings instead of plastic European tone woods instead of Domestic Tone Woods, highly figured or very old wood instead of my reugular stock (which is all old, air dried and master grade). There is a difference, although not better or worse…just different

JGL: So it must be really cool to see or hear your guitars being played in a pro setting…

MG: I love that. It’s very surreal and I love it.

JGL: I have no doubt. So Joe Finn is endorsing your guitars. What does that mean to the average guy or gal who reads or hears about this? Does this mean that you have given Joe a free guitar…?

MG: No! I couldn’t. I only make 15 guitars a year. . I am not sure how Gibson or the other major manufacturers handle all their endorsements but I know that sometimes if an artist has a signature series they make a small percentage from each sale, sometimes it’s a freebee,I don’t know. I do know that I can’t afford to give away guitars.

There is a well known finger style artist who absolutely loved my finger style guitars. He called me from California one day and said that he really would love to have one of my guitars (and of course, I would have loved having him own one), but his current deal was just too sweet. When I mentioned that I would try and make it as affordable as possible for him, he basically said that there was no way I could make it as affordable as the deal he has now. Basically the guitar that he was using was given to him by a major manufacturer, he gets a percentage of the sales and they pay a major portion of his travel AND accommodation expenses. I couldn’t come anywhere near that deal. Most of the folks who are doing what I am doing, can’t afford to give away guitars, just because we can’t afford to. It would be like working for a month for free. But I do have a standard discount for my artists and it has to be a good arrangement for everybody. I have to justify making the instrument and they have to be able to afford to play it. Besides…I make my living building guitars, and they use them to make their living. It’s a major part of their business. Like a bandsaw or hand plane is for me!

JGL: Joe Finn was obviously someone you heard and wanted to have him as an endorser. Can anyone then come up to you and say “Hey I like your work. I want to endorse your guitars, please give me a deal.” Or does it have to be someone of a certain stature or a high level of musicianship…

MG: It’s a tough ethical thing. I don’t just…I don’t know what to tell you. I mean, sure, if Larry Carlton called me up and asked to endorse one of my Philmore models (my small body 335 stlye guitar) I would jump at the chance to make him an artist’s deal, but if Fred Carlton called me up…whoever he may be…I’d say “Fred, I’m sure you’re a nice guy, but uhmmm…” This is a difficult question. It’s a judgment call and I need to know that I am going to make a return on my investment. It’s no different than taking out a really big ad…an $8,000 ad! After all, this is a business and how I make my living (or try to!) and I need to make business minded decisions that are worth it for me and for those who endorse my instruments. To be honest, I would like to be in the position where I didn’t have to offer discounts for my guitars, as some of my colleagues are. But I’m not. I made a conscious decision to limit my production to15 guitars a year and keep my business small and simple. I just want a business that caters to the needs of everyone, including myself.

JGL: Cool. Well then, that being said, who is ready for a hand made guitar?

MG: That’s an interesting question. I have a very dear friend of mine named Jeff Traugott who builds steel string guitars, in Santa Cruz. His starting price is $24,000.00 (USD) and he’s ten years out [ed. the waiting time in an individual guitar order]. So, he told me a story about a guy who wanted to order a guitar but couldn’t play. But the way he figured it, he had ten years to learn…[chuckles]. I have a client who bought a very expensive guitar, $14,000.00 (USD) and he had only been playing for a year and a half. But he saw the guitar with one of my agents in a showcase, fell in love with it and bought it, figuring that since he is learning, he might as well learn on a really great guitar. So…as far as buying a hand made instrument; who is ready for it? Anybody who can afford it. And I don’t mean that in a bad way, but there are people who feel that “hey, I can afford it and I would like the best.” Then there are those who are dissatisfied with what’s out there. “Man, I’ve tried all these factory guitars and this one doesn’t sound good, and that one…” So find a maker who can make you exactly what it is that you are looking for and commission a guitar. Once you do, there is no turning back to factory guitars….

JGL: You had mentioned to me earlier that you are a huge fan of the work done by archtop builder Jimmy D’Acquisto. Are there other mentors or luthiers out there that you look up to or even hang out with who you have learnt stuff from?

MG: I am really fortunate to have some really close friends who are the big names in our community. Linda Manzer is a good friend of mine and it’s funny because Linda and I don’t talk too much about guitar making but more of how to live life as a guitar maker, because she’s been doing it for thirty-five years, so she’s been there and done it. I’ve learnt a lot about guitar making from my repair and restoration days. Because, you know, sticking your nose inside all of those old guitars really helps with understanding the process. John Monteleone says” if you want to make archtop guitars, go study all of the great old L-5, L-7 and super 4’s from the early years. Learn from them, copy them, do what they were doing. It’s the best place to start”. I also spent a week with Tom Ribbecke, where I learnt how to make archtop guitars. I belong to several organizations and I attend seminars and symposiums. I’ve sat in a couple of classes of John Monteleone’s whose one of my favorite contemporary makers. I have friends who are Violin and Cello makers and we talk about the quality of woods, carving and so forth. And even though they are different instruments, there is still a lot one can learn from those guys.

This year at the Long Island Guitar Show, right across from my table, was Larry Wexler’s table and he had five D’Acquistos lined up. It was like a hundred and fifty thousand dollars of guitars right there. But for me it was an opportunity for me to look at the shape of his arches, his carving, where his re-curve started and finished, tap it, listen to it, see how he built, what was his neck angle was like and so on…which has had a lot of influence on my work. Just being a part of this community is enlightening. I would say people like Monteleone, Tom Ribbecke, Linda Manzer, Ted Magas, I love his work, Steve Anderson another very gifted and very smart man, Steve Grimes, another great arch top maker, Mark Campelone, Bill Commins, a good friend of mine and I think, an underappreciated guitar maker, not that he isn’t appreciated, just that more players should know who he is. So there are a lot of very talented makers out there to learn from…

JGL: …and you mentioned earlier that the majority of guitar makers you know in this community are really very nice individuals…

MG: Oh yeah, the best people. Some of them are shy and I wish they weren’t as shy because I would like to learn more from them but, yeah, most of these people I am fortunate enough to call my friends. We see each other once a year, maybe once every couple of years, if we are lucky sometimes twice a year, and you know, we do our guitar show thing, but then afterwards, we sit around, have dinner, have a beer, and talk about guitar making. People are very open and it’s like “Hey, I noticed you were doing such and such to your guitars, how do you do that…?” “Oh well…I do this, this and that, and I made a jig to do this and give me your email address and I’ll send you a picture.” Which is very cool, because these are the people who are best at what they do. The luminaries of our craft. Obviously not everyone shares everything, we all have our little secrets. But you know, there’s not really that much happening under the sun that is new, so when someone calls me up or emails me, I share what I can. Others have extended this courteousy to me, so I do the same. That’s kind of the way it is.

JGL: Is there someone who you have always dreamed of building for?

MG: Pat Martino was pretty much it. But there are so many monster players Tuck Andress for instance. One of my friends, well, we’re becoming friends; right now he’s an acquaintance, Taku Sakashta, a great, brilliant designer, great guitar maker. Tuck is playing one of his guitars now. Scofield, Larry Carlton. God he’s such a tasty player. I would love…well, I have mixed emotions…I would love to build a guitar for Pat Metheny but would never do it because he is Linda’s customer.. And I’m sorry, but I would never go after one of my friends’ clients. I mean let’s face it, there are guitarists out there who play several guitars made by several different makers and that’s fine….actually, Pat Metheny came by my table at the Long Island Guitar Show. He just walked up to my table with his son and I took one of those double takes and I said to him “Is that you?” and he said “Yes, it’s me” [chuckles]. So we shook hands and I thanked him for the many years of fine music and he went on his way. If by some miracle he was to approach me, or any artist for that matter who was playing one of my friends’ or colleagues guitars, I would only accept the commission on the condition that I received a full blessing from my friend or colleague first. If they didn’t feel right about it or were uncomfortable with that idea, then I would call the artist back and say “thank you, I am thrilled that you would like me to make you a guitar but I cannot at this time” and then leave it at that. Thank goodness there’s enough work for everybody and it’s always growing, You don’t have to build your business by stealing other people’s customers. That being said, I just love to build for anybody that loves playing Jazz Guitar.

JGL: How long have you been doing this?

MG: Well, I have been doing repair and reparation for a long time which led into my building guitars. Basically I have bulding full time for eight years now.

JGL: What was your motivation for getting into this business?

MG: Well, I was doing repair and restoration at the peak of the Vintage market before EBay and there were a lot of collectors and dealers, I worked for a number for them, and I started getting these very expensive, like fifty to sixty thousand dollar acoustic guitars to work on, and I didn’t feel comfortable with that at the time so I went and took an acoustic guitar making course, to become a better repair person. The truth is that repairing and building don't have anything to do with each other, but, I did become enamored by the whole building process and then slowly tried to develop my business to where I was building enough that I no longer needed to do repairs. Even though I started building eight years ago, it was only about four years ago that I had enough orders that I didn’t have to rely on repair. So it didn’t happen over night, but that’s how it happened.

JGL: I guess the obvious question to ask is: Do you play guitar?

MG: Oh Yeah! I have been playing for thirty five years …

JGL: Any particular style?

MG: Well, like all of us, I started off playing rock in the seventies, and made a lot of money playing disco, which was a lot of fun. But my own personal tastes, and although I am not a legit jazz guy, is fusion music. But my love is jazz…that’s what I listen to. And to be honest, I just don’t have the patience to sit and learn; otherwise, I would be playing Jazz. Not that there is anything illegitimate about Fusion, but that’s where my love is. I have one of my Philmore guitars that I use which is basically a small body 335 and that’s what I play.

JGL: So have you built a guitar for yourself?

MG: Actually, finally, I just did.

JGL: Where do you get the names for your guitars?

MG: I name them after Jazz clubs, after venues. There’s the Fat Cat, which is a club in New York, the Village Vanguard, the Philmore was a famous place. And of course there was the Newport. So that’s where the names come from.

JGL: Now I notice that you build more than just arch tops…

MG: Yeah, I build steel string, classical and archtops. There are not many builders who do all three. The truth is, from each one I bring knowledge to the other. So to answer your question: I build steel string guitars because that’s where the hand made market is; I build Classical guitars because that’s where the challenge is, (it’s really hard to get a Classical guitar to sound good and I have learned more about guitar making and how the guitar works from Classical guitars than any of the others) and I build arch tops because that’s where my love is. They’re beautiful and sexy and they sound great. It’s very magical to make an arch top guitar.

JGL: Thank you very much Michael for participating on www.jazzguitarlife.com. It has been a real pleasure and very insightful.

MG: My pleasure as well Lyle.